DM rolling Question

[shadow]

I am about to start a DMing a dnd 3.5 game. I have read the three core books over a couple of times. But I don't really have a feel for when the DM should role for characters. My basic gut feeling is anytime you want to keep something that the players don't know about from them... i.e. monsters in the shadow's, secret doors. But I assume if they "listen" or "look around" that their listen and/or spot checks override mine. Does anyone have suggestion for guidelines of how they handle the DM rolling for characters.

With this, are there specific values off of character sheets for each player that you keep at hand? Suggested list?

Thanks any help.

[Jim in Buffalo]

You could have the player put the die in a closed box (like a jewelry box or something, or a little wooden box with tentacles coming out of it), shake it up a bit, and then set it down in front of you, and then you could gently open it and look at it without letting anyone else see it.

That way, the probability event of the die roll has been shaped entirely by the player, but he doesn't see the result. You could write down that die roll in secret, along with a brief two or three word description, away from prying eyes, and then reveal later on what the roll was after the encounter is over.

If your players don't trust you to use the actual die roll, use a webcam to record yourself opening the box, so that they will know that whatever they rolled is what you said they rolled.

[shadow]

I appreciate the suggestion Jim, but if it gets to a point where my players (which are made up of close friends) are not trusting my roles ... I won't be DMing for them.

[shadow]

I might should have been a little clearer. I have DM'd before but not in the D20 system, so it is new to me.

Also, my first post should have read... Thanks for any help.

[TheGothfather]

I always make a copy of each player's character sheet for my own use. That way, if I need to roll something without letting the players know what I'm rolling for, I can just get the score off of the sheet myself without asking for it, and the players have no idea if I'm rolling for anything in particular, or who's stats I'm using or what.

As for when to roll, the guideline that I use is that I make secret rolls any time that asking for a roll or a stat would ruin a surprise for the players. Surprise rolls, saving throws, etc. The only time I let them roll these things themselves is if they're actively looking or paying attention. For examlpe, if I want to see if a PC spots a secret door as they're passing down the hallway - secret roll. If they fail, I just don't mention it. If the same PC is actively looking for a secret door, I let them roll, and then tell them what they find - a secret door or nothing, depending on if their roll succeeds or not.

Hope that helps.

[keithcurtis]

I roll for the player in any situation in which the consequences of failure would not be obvious. A climbing roll is made by the player. His character would naturally be aware if he fell. A perception roll or stealth roll (HERO teminology) is made by me. He should be told if he hears something, but not if he didn't hear something.

[stickman]

I'd agree that whenever you require a roll, but don't want the character to know that they have been targetted by an effect or might have missed something - then make the roll in secret.

Here's what I tend to do: Keep a little table of each character and thier Spot, Listen, Search and Saves. Then, before the game, I roll a D20 about 20 times and jot the results down. Now, for example, the players walk into a room where they *might* spot an ambush. I look player A's spot, then the first result I rolled, did he make it? Same for the other players. Then, after describing the room, I can drop into the description that player B spots something. This way it seems more natural, and if they don't spot the ambush they actually are surprised when some damage starts flying around.

[TheDungeoneer]

Way back when I first started gaming, we were in a crampt dorm room with no table. While dice rolling was easy for the players, me and my myriad of books, papers, and notebooks wasn't so lucky. My solution? A random number table spit out from a BASIC program (hey, no sniggering back there!).

Anyways, the habit carried over and I made up a nicer set of tables that I go through crossing off a number as I use it. Makes it mindlessly easy to go through a lot of rolls real quick. It's also a great way to preroll up NPCs or other random tables (treasure, etc) when you're not at a computer and need to be quiet (the wife's watching Oprah and doesn't need the "pitter-patter" of little dice).

I never had an issue with player trust. Sounds like that may be a bigger issue than the dice rolling thing...

[THE GOOCH]

What my part douse is all players roll up 10 spot listens and sence motives. I then roll a 10 sided die to see were to start and use that list for there rolls. Most of the time they don’t even know that they are using those rolls.

If a player asks to séance motive then they roll the die.

[Hyphen]

My regular GM doesn't make any rolls for the players. He has the players roll everything. But ... he's a sneaky guy ... he doesn't say what they're rolling for.

Example: Characters are strolling down a dungeon corridor. Our GM will say, "OK everyone, roll a d20, just for my amusement." He has electronic copies of all our stats & skills. We shout out the results. Only the GM knows if we're rolling a fortitude save because the air turned foul, or a spot check to see who notices the dire ferret down a side passage, or a survival check in case someone knows the glowing mushrooms are actually quite scrumptious sauteed with a little butter... or just to see who stubs their toe on the uneven floor and gets an owie.

IOW, we do the work, he keeps us guessing! And he keeps it vague enough that we don't automatically say to each other "uh-oh, we're rolling, better get your weapon out." It works for us, anyway.

Jim in Buffalo:

a little wooden box with tentacles coming out of it

Y'know, I had just managed to get "If I Were a Deep One" out of my head, and now here you go... (if you have no idea what I'm talking about, http://www.cthulhulives.org/shoggoth/)

[Cax]

I like to start a session with a bunch of rolls. I'll have a list of the various skills checks planned for the party and have them roll them ahead of time. It's fun for the party (who doesn't like rolling a lot of dice?) and it's fun for me (I know what critical info they just missed). Once I have the matrix with all their rolls, I need only refer to that for the results as needed.

[SirMark]

If you use a DM screen, try using the "roll behind the screen" technique. For players who prefer to roll their own dice (rather than letting the DM roll on his/her behalf), have them toss the die behind the DM screen. They won't know the outcome of the roll, but the DM will.

Just make sure your glass of Mountain Dew is out of the way... splash!

[Festivus]

Anyways, the habit carried over and I made up a nicer set of tables that I go through crossing off a number as I use it. Makes it mindlessly easy to go through a lot of rolls real quick. It's also a great way to preroll up NPCs or other random tables (treasure, etc) when you're not at a computer and need to be quiet (the wife's watching Oprah and doesn't need the "pitter-patter" of little dice).

I was looking at the tables and wondering if you aren't rolling a 21 sided die. You have 20's and 00's on the chart.

[TheDungeoneer]

I was looking at the tables and wondering if you aren't rolling a 21 sided die. You have 20's and 00's on the chart.

I guess that's what I get for being in a hurry and using a random number generator. I seriously doubt I have the source file anymore however...

UPDATE: Created new PDFs. Now there's one file for each die type, and each is 5 pages of numbers. Enjoy.

[Lord Z]

Those tables are interesting, Dungeneer. I would have been skeptical about their efficiency, but if you swear by them, I'll believe it.